Greg "Smokey" Hormel was the 4th guitarist in the Blasters history,
holding the position from 1988-92. He has gained the most success of all
the former Blaster guitarists recently by joining the band of Pop singer
Beck. He started as the guitar player for the touring band and has also
contributed to Beck's soon to be released album MUTATIONS. This
interview with Smokestack as Beck calls him, was conducted in New York
City on 6/8/98 a day after Beck played New Jersey's Giant Stadium to a
near sell-out crowd. This is Part 1 of the interview.

American Music: Tell me about your early involvement in music.

Smokey Hormel: I was born into a musical family. My mother was a
ballerina and her grandfather was a classical pianist. My dad played
Piano as did his brother; who is the guy who invented Spam, They were
the sons of the big Hormel food company. My uncle was a jazz pianist/
recording pioneer. He was one of the early multitrack experimenters. He
owned a recording studio called the Village Recorders. It became big in
the late 70's. Steely Dan recorded there, The Band mixed THE LAST WALTZ
and Fleetwood Mac did TUSK.  So I fell into playing drums and guitar. I
got into the blues through the Beatles and the Stones. I barely finished
high school because I was only interested in music. By the time I was 18
I had a full blown cocaine addiction and that took me away from music. I
moved to New York to study acting and I worked as a waiter. I was there
from 1980-84 and then I moved back to L.A.. I did a lot of theatre but
breaking into movies was a lot harder than I thought. Now rewind back
when I was 15; I wanted to learn jazz like Miles Davis and Coltrane. So
my Dad suggested calling Barney Kessel for lessons. I did and he
referred me to Jimmy Wyball who played with Benny Goodman, Bob Wills,
Spade Coley, and Red Norvoe. I took some lessons from him and he
introduced me to Western Swing and Charlie Christian. To me, Hendrix and
Christian are the two greatest guitar players. There was nobody my age
to play with so it was untapped for years. Fast Forward to L.A. in 1985;
I'm a frustrated actor who meets Paul Greenstein who has a western swing
band called the Radio Ranch Straight Shooters, and he asks me to join.
Before we knew it we were getting great gigs opening for X and the
Knitters. I first met Dave (Alvin) at a Knitters gig. It was a premiere
for a western movie called THE BAD DAY. I was playing pure Charlie
Christian. Me and Dave have always been friends but there has always
been a competitive element there. I was totally in awe of him so I would
always talk to him about guitar playing, thinking he was some big hero
and he never seemed to feel that he was a great guitar player. Dave
asked us to open for them in 1986. That is where (Blasters drummer Bill)
Bateman saw me and decided he wanted  to be in this band. We had a 15
year old drummer named Joey Waronker, it was his first band and he was
just incredible. He was a neighbor of my parents and I became his
friend. He was so young that we couldn't play clubs with him. So Bill
was asked to join the band. It's a funny twist that I'm playing with
Joey now in Beck's band. So in the winter of '86 Bill was telling me all
about Hollywood Fats (Blasters Guitarist at the time) and how great he
is. Then suddenly he dies and Bill is all freaked out because Fats was
going to save the Blasters. Bill gets the idea that I could be in the
band so he tried to train me. He totally educated me on Blues. He
started playing me all these 78's. (ed. Note meanwhile, Dave Alvin
returned temporarily to the Blasters to fulfill a commitment to a
European tour in January and Feb. 87) By the summer of '87 Phil had
asked Billy Zoom to join and they did that European tour. Bill was still
trying to get me in the band and we formed a band called the Stumble
Bums. Johnny Ray Bartel was playing bass and Pat French was playing
Harmonica. We ended up getting a lot of gigs around town and backed up
Bo Diddley and it was a lot of fun. Billy (Zoom) retired from music
(July 87) and as he said "I'm rehabilitated." A few months after Billy
left I got an audition. I had already jammed with Johnny so he was
already on my side. So I auditioned and Phil was into it. Our first tour
was in spring of '88.

AM: Did the Radio Ranch Straight Shooters do any recording?

Smokey: We had a song called THE NEXT BIG THING on a compilation called
THE HOLLYWOOD ROUND-UP  (                ) it has all country songs on
it except for our western swing song. We also did a score for a David
Lynch film for European TV called THE COWBOY AND THE FRENCHMEN. We just
played on the film score. It starred Harry Dean Stanton. We appeared on
the MTV show THE CUTTING EDGE.

AM: How did you work out learning the material in the Blasters?

Smokey: Basically I just studied the Rolling Rock record and the first
Slash record. I just learned to play Dave's parts. It was a challenge
because I was a swing guitarist. I didn't know anything about surf and
knew nothing about Link Wray. But I got all the records and got into it.
I was having these sessions with  Phil, where he would play me records
and tell me the history of recorded music. There was so much to be
learned. The Blasters come from the school of mimicking exactly what was
on the records. We would listen to, like a Frankie Lee Sims song LUCY
MAE BLUES and we would have arguments after looking at it under a
microscope - almost with fist fights! Now, I really appreciate having
been really specific and looking at it with such focus. Musicians don't
do that anymore.

AM: Wasn't OKEE DOKEE STOMP considered your signature song?

Smokey: That became my signature song because it was one of Phil's
favorite guitar solos.

AM: Another great song the Blasters did at that time was Precious
Memories.

Smokey: Oh yeah! That is a great song. There was a Carl Perkins song
that I used as a model for the guitar riff. I was disappointed that we
never demo-ed that song. We did a session on my birthday December 15, in
1989 that was unproductive. We were gonna start to work on the new album
but a lot of fights started especially between Phil and Bill. We had a
few songs like the FIRE OF LOVE and two Dave Alvin songs; DRY RIVER and
BROTHER, and one that Phil wrote called 4-11-44. I was already familiar
with one of those Dave Alvin songs (BROTHER). .In summer of '87 I went
to Austin Minnesota, where the Hormel meat packing plant had been on
strike. A friend from my acting days got me involved. He was a
playwright and knew Dave Alvin when he did music for a play called LADY
BETH. It was documentary play where workers would tell their own
stories, about steel mills in L.A., that were shut down. Cass Alvin
(Phil & Dave's Dad) was directly involved with that. So the guy's next
project was this Hormel strike. Which is a funny connection again. So I
was doing music for the show and one song was Dave Alvin's BROTHER ON
THE LINE.

AM: The Blaster version was much different than Dave's?

Smokey: I liked it slow but Phil wanted to rock it out.

AM: You toured Europe a few times didn't you?

Smokey: In '91 we did two tours of Europe. The last tour wasn't fun
because I was frustrated because we hadn't recorded anything and with
Gene (Taylor) there, Bill was being really belligerent. I love Gene's
playing. I was really hanging a lot with Lee. Any free time I had I
would spend with him trying to find out more information about the past.
I loved touring Europe with them. I had never visited Europe as a
musician before. It was great to have that kind of respect. Our
popularity had gone down in the states but in Europe they had a big
following especially in Italy and Scandinavia.

AM: I heard Lee Allen had jam sessions at his house to train you in the
blues?

Smokey: He would invite me down to these jam sessions at his friend
George Mason's house. George was an old transplanted New Orleans
musician. They would just get together on Wednesday's to play. I tried
to get Bill down there, it was too bad, because they had some amazing
drummers. They have this unique way of swinging that relates to that New
Orleans spirit. Lee used to say to me, "Greg I'm gonna relax you." The
Blasters are so close to Little Richard-- just this raging band with
fast, fast songs one after another. Lee would play these simple little
pretty melodies that sort of floated. His whole thing was that if you
think of something pretty you can let the band do all the raging. Lee
was trying to teach me to hold back a little bit. I think it sunk in
because later on it became really handy.

AM: How did leaving the Blasters come about?

Smokey: As Lee Allen got sicker and couldn't make some of the tours, I
was frustrated myself, because I felt we should have been making records
and Phil was so picky and such a procrastinater. I had a long talk with
my friend Ry Cooder and he convinced me to move on.

AM: At that point Phil was calling the band the PHIL ALVIN QUARTET.

Smokey: Yeah, they should have called the band the Phil Alvin Quartet
when Dave left. I saw the Blasters play once with Dave. They got
together to play a benefit (ed.-probably Barbra Boxer benefit) and
that's the real band right there. That is what the Blasters are. When
Bill left, I felt it shouldn't be the Blasters anymore. I was playing in
other bands and just got too busy.

AM: Any memorable gigs with the Blasters?

Smokey: We did a gig at the Palace in Hollywood when I first joined the
band. I remember I was really excited because Dave Alvin and Tony
Gilkyson came up to me afterwards and were really congratulatory. That
felt really good. Billy Zoom was very encouraging too. He eventually
sold me one of his amplifiers that I used in the later part of my tenure
with the Blasters. It was such a great opportunity for me to be in the
band at that time because Phil was really into music. I wasn't from
Downey and I was a little bit younger, so it was a learning thing for
me. As Lee Allen got sicker and couldn't tour, Phil seemed to not have a
reason to keep it together. I've always felt good about my relationship
with Phil. I don't feel like we had any animosity between us after I
left. In fact I played with the Blasters again two years ago and it was
a lot of fun. (ed.--4/96 Smokey did 5 gigs just before Keith Wyatt
joined) All the old songs came right back to me.

AM: I heard you were going to put out a single with Lee Allen called Old
Rockin' Chair?

Smokey: Actually it was going to be a whole album. I didn't get it
together. I recorded about 8 songs with him. Top Jimmy sang on it and
it's really good. I started it by recording some rhythm tracks with
Larry Taylor from the Hollywood Fats band and James Cruz, a drummer with
JJ Cale. We recorded a bunch of rhythm tracks then I got Lee to come
over and overdub sax parts. We all went in to the studio and did three
more songs-- An original of mine called DRINKIN ALONG, and two jump
Blues. One slow blues that is awesome; I named it BLUES FOR TINY for
obvious reasons (Lee's wife's name). I have to take the time to finish
it and hopefully It will come out as an EP or something.

AM: I heard there was supposed to be a big tribute concert for Lee?

Smokey: When Lee was sick I had a club lined up to do a big benefit for
him. He was still alive and needed the money. I wanted to call it a
tribute gig because Lee is very proud. The club agreed and it was booked
for his birthday at the House Of Blues. We were gonna get Dave
Bartholemew and his band and Little Richard. Then the House Of Blues
totally fucked me over. They weren't advertising the gig. I called them
and they said, "We couldn't do a benefit if we didn't advertise it as a
benefit."  So they decided not to do it at all. I was heart broken. It
was a shame because he died a couple of months later. The last time I
saw him he was in bed and he kept calling Tiny into the room and she
would say "What" and he would say, "Nothing. I just wanted to look at
you." He was very romantic.

AM: How did you get in Beck's band?

Smokey: Joey Waronker (Joey's Dad was Lenny Waronker, Vice-President of
Warner Bros. Records) and I had a band called the Lotus Eaters and we
were gonna do this ambitious thing of playing as an improvising ensemble
that would accompany spoken word artists. We did a few performances and
then Joey left with Beck. I auditioned for Beck in '95 for Lollapalooza,
but I was booked for a Bruce Willis tour of Planet Hollywood's. Beck
couldn't make up his mind in time so I just left with Bruce Willis.
Beck's hit song LOSER (Bong Load, 1994) was already a million seller but
the Bruce Willis gig was in Chakarta which was a really exotic place I
wanted to see. I think Beck wasn't able to take his music serious yet. I
think he was intimidated by good musicians. He felt like I was a really
good musician. At the time I thought he just didn't think I was good
enough. It worked out, because that tour was a disaster for Beck. So in
the following year he decided to use me.

AM: How was it different going into Beck which is an alternative band
when you were always in traditional bands?

Smokey: It was as much of challenge as it was going from Swing to
Rockabilly. Playing with John Doe, I was beginning to experiment more. I
always loved the feedback thing because I grew up on Hendrix. Beck is
surprisingly traditional in his musical mind. He comes from a country
blues back ground. When he was a kid he taught himself to play like
Mississippi John Hurt. He listened to a lot of Jimmie Rogers so we have
that in common. In fact we recently did a couple of country gigs where
we had J.D. Manis playing steel and Billy Pane from Little Feat playing
piano. So I wasn't very familiar with the experimental guitar players
like Sonic Youth which Beck was into but I learned what to play by
copying it off the record. Beck likes things a little off and sloppy. On
some songs, I'll even de-tune the guitar to get that vibe, approaching
it like a non-player.

AM: How about your equipment.. Did that change?

Smokey: It's a whole new ballgame. With the Blasters I had a few foot
pedals. I used a wah wah and a delay and a tube screamer. They didn't
want any pedals, but I pushed it. With John Doe, I started using a lot
of different pedals to try to get extreme sounds. Now with Beck, I have
a rack of effects and I have a midi foot controller which has them
preset. I have about 15 or 20 effects to send my signal through. My
guitar tech made my amp. He started a company out of Minnesota called
Savage.

AM: It must have really been loud like yesterday in Giant Stadium?

Smokey: We've been trying to keep the stage volume down because there is
so much going on with all the samples. We played about twice as loud in
the Blasters.

AM: Are you on any Beck recordings

Smokey: We just did a record called MUTATIONS and I'm on a lot of it.
Beck's a really good player himself, so I'm really needed in the studio.
I did get a couple of good solos on there. This album is more acoustic
than he was planning and will be on an independent label. Then, he wants
to follow it up with a pop album for Geffen records.

AM: What do you remember about Lester Butler?

Smokey: Lester and I were really good friends. He took advantage of me
in a lot of ways with the Red Devils. Originally they got me to fire the
piano player and then they blamed me. We stayed friends and were always
calling each other up. I'll always miss him. I will put him up there
with Phil as being an important singer. He was confused at what his
strengths were. In the last six months he was sober and he was a great
guy. I was hopeful for him and thought his career was going to have a
second renaissance. But when I heard he O.D'ed, I wasn't surprised. He
had this weird idolization of Holly wood fats and that's where he
developed his drug habit. They always hung out together and he said he
was going to go like Hollywood Fats, and he did. I do remember him
fondly.

AM: What are your thoughts on your Blaster years?

Smokey: I feel really fortunate that I got to spend those few years with
Phil. He is a great singer and a talented guy. Just hearing him sing
every night was great. Beck is the opposite of Phil. What he lacks in
technique he makes up for in fearlessness and willingness to go for it.

AM: What other projects were you involved in right after the Blasters?

Smokey: As soon as I left the Blasters I became John Doe's guitarist and
we played together for the next 3 or 4 years until the Beck gig came
along and I had to leave. The duet stuff John and I did was a lot of
country stuff. John would play acoustic and sing lead and I would play
electric and sing harmonies. We did X songs, John's original songs and
we'd also cover some country songs and Knitters songs. It was really
fun. I was also playing with a boogie-woogie piano player called Rob Rio
and then there was this Blues band with Bill (Batemen) called The Blue
Shadows. I was the one who got them the gig at the King King (famous
L.A. blues club.) I had pushed Bill into hiring Lester (Butler) as the
harp player. It was a traditional old style blues band, not too loud and
like farmer  blues. They got signed to a major label deal. Bill had a
falling out, the emphasize was now on being like Led Zeppelin. They
asked Johnny Ray's brother to play rhythm guitar in the band and I was
upset because now they weren't even consulting me about personnel
changes. I left the band and they changed the name to the Red Devils.

AM: Did you get to record with the Red Devils?

Smokey: I was on about a third of the sessions with Mick Jagger. (ed-
The Red Devils recorded a full album's worth of blues songs with Mick
Jagger that remains unreleased.) It's available on a bootleg CD in
Japan. That was a wonderful experience. We did a session with Johnny
Cash too. It was a day in the studio when they were trying different
bands for his American Recording album (American, 1994). We played some
Jimmie Rogers songs like T FOR TEXAS. He would sing these songs and we
would feel our way through. It was an amazing session. I remember not
trying to mess with the integrity of Johnny Cash. I was trying to go
with the Luther Perkins sound. I  don't remember Lester doing very much 
on the sessions, but he was there. Johnny Ray played a lot of standup
bass. Johnny Cash was such a sweet man. He kept apologizing for not
singing well, because he had a sinus infection but I didn't notice
anything! His wife was there and she was really talkative and great. She
came up to me right away and said, "Is that a Gretsch guitar? My momma
had a Gretsch guitar!" and that was it, stories just came rollin' out.

AM: What was next after leaving the Red Devils?

Smokey:  Steve Hodges  and I started a band that played at the King King
called the Road House Rhythm Kings. It was a goofy band with guitar,
bass, drums, and tenor sax. Lee would sit in when he wasn't too sick.
When the King King shut down a lot of things happened at once for me.
Lee got too sick and my older sister got cancer. So I dropped out of
everything in '93.  I spent 6 months just taking care of her. After she
died, the thing with John Doe took off doing a movie called Georgia, and
a project called the John Doe thing. There are 2 CD's out of that. In
fact that had the drummer from Beck's band. (ed-John Doe Thing CD's -
Kissing So Hard on Rhino, 1995 - For the Rest of Us on KRS records,
1998)

AM: How involved were you in Georgia and was there a soundtrack release?

Smokey: Yes. There was a Georgia soundtrack (Discovery, 1995). The movie
stars Jennifer Jason Leigh. We play a Seattle bar band sort of like a
like Velvet Underground cover band. We're in a lot of it. I did an
arrangement of MIDNIGHT TRAIN TO GEORGIA that I'm pretty proud of. Also
a cover of Elvis Costello's ALMOST BLUE.  I've done some work for David
Lynch. I played on some of the Twin Peaks Movie. And I worked on a
project of his called Fox Bart Strategy. He would recite poetry and have
the band play behind him.

AM: How did you wind up playing in Bruce Willis blues band?

Smokey: He had hired the Red Devils to do the first Planet Hollywood
opening in NY. Bruce fell in love with Lester's playing and tried to
mimic him and his whole character. Bruce put together another band with
me and Steven Hodges, and Johnny (Bazz). I played about 15 openings all
over the world. That was agood experience.

AM: How did you wind up leaving his band?

Smokey: I got too busy with John Doe and was doing that Georgia movie at
the time. So, Bruce had to find another guitar player. They always left
it as an open door that I could come back but I stayed busy.

AM: Any thing you've done vocals for?

Smokey: Yes. Actually there is something I'm really proud of. On the
soundtrack for Trees Lounge (MCA, 1996), which Steve Buscemi wrote and
directed. I did a duet with a New York woman named Eszter Balint called
COLOR OF YOUR EYES. It was just a demo and they decided to put it on the
record as is. I would love to do more singing and I probably will but
nothing planned. AM: Any other projects recently? Smokey: I made the 13
record with Lester (Butler) on a little break in Beck's touring
schedule. Then this spring I did a gig with Tom Waits. That was a thrill
for me. If he calls again I'll go running. I did a film score called
There's No Fish Food In Heaven. They're trying to  sell it and get
distribution right now. I also played on this film called Hurly Burly
with Sean Penn. I played guitar on the score. I was playing in James
Intveld's swing band at one time too. I recorded recently with Juliana
Hatfield. I'm also in a band in LA called Brazaville. It's a Latin Jazz
and Cuban band. It's been 10 years since I started with the Blasters and
I've been working steady ever since. I've been really lucky.

AM: Have you ever worked with Dave Alvin?

Smokey: We've jammed together at the King King where we did a tribute
night to Little Walter. I'd love to do something with him. I think Dave
is really special. I would love to do a country record with Dave and
John Doe. I think that would be amazing. Actually I was on that Merle
Haggard tribute Dave did (Tulare Dust on Hightone, 1995). John Doe and I
were on there. I played a guitar that I faked to sound like a pedal
steel. I'm good friends with Greg Leisz and he is on Beck's new record
(Mutations) and on Beck's Odelay (Geffen, 1996)

AM: What aspirations do you have for the future?

Smokey: Well where can you go from Beck. I'm looking forward to writing
more film scores. My goal for the rest of the year is to finish the Lee
Allen record.

AM: Clarify a statement from a previous interview in which you stated
that the Blasters had trouble releasing the Hardline (Slash, 1985) album
because the record company stated that "Horns weren't cool anymore."

Smokey: That was something that Phil told me. He said someone at the
record company said that "Horns weren't in."

AM: How did Lee Allen deal with all the controversy in the Blasters?

Smokey: Lee had been through so much that he didn't let himself get
caught up in the drama. He was truly an inspiration to me. When I
started with Beck I didn't get to play and express myself much so I was
disappointed. Then, I think of Lee. He would have killed to play with
these kids and in  front of all these people. I don't think I play as
well as I did when I was with the Blasters. Back then, my chops were
really up there and now I couldn't do it.

AM: What are the most prestigious gigs you've had with Beck?

Smokey: One was playing the Grammy awards at Madison Square Garden in
'97. We did WHERE IT'S AT. That was a thrill to see all the famous
people in the audience chanting "Where It's At.". Another was that we
did a recording with Emmy Lou Harris for Almo records. It's a Graham
Parsons tribute record. We used Beck's band with Emmy Lou. So those two
things, and playing on this new record, Mutations.

AM:  I saw the Beck performance on the MTV Music awards. I noticed you
and the bassist had some choreographed moves; spins and so on going on.

Smokey: Yeah!  It's pretty collaborative. I've been bringing in videos
of old soul programs. I had Jackie Wilson and James Brown on Shindig. We
would work on that. Beck's a good dancer and he seems to be getting
ready to push that further.

AM: Now where did the nickname Smokey comes from.

Smokey: That was Paul Greenstein, the leader of the Radio Ranch Straight
Shooters. Because I smoke and because of my voice.